Iron clutch/trans

Classic short-frame models

Re: Iron clutch/trans

Postby hayleyl » Sun Jul 10, 2016 7:28 pm

Hello Mutt - make sure the ball and ramp throw out has all 3 ball bearings and that the circlip that holds the whole show together is located properly in its groove. Cheers Hayley.
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Re: Iron clutch/trans

Postby Mutt » Sun Jul 10, 2016 7:49 pm

We pulled the transmission a couple of days ago. All appears fine. don't think it's the gears, as it will go in all 4 gears just pushing the bike back and forth (motor not running) , but when ya pull in the clutch , in any gear, and try to roll the bike, you can tell the clutch isn't working as the wheel is still turning the pistons over.

I will look at the ramp assembly in the morning. When ya squeeze the lever in, it has good pressure and pops back when released, like it's a normal clutch. This one has me baffled.
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Re: Iron clutch/trans

Postby mikeslemmon » Mon Jul 11, 2016 5:21 pm

remove.the clutch put it in .the same gear and turn the rear wheel
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Re: Iron clutch/trans

Postby Mutt » Mon Jul 11, 2016 5:45 pm

Ok. pulled the cover off and checked out the ramp mech. All is there and all looks good.

I will try your idea next. Thanks
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Re: Iron clutch/trans

Postby hayleyl » Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:50 pm

Hello Mutt - this is weird - did you check the the ramp washer (I think 1/8th) was the correct thickness and all three balls are 5/16? If you can select all gears (including neutral) and the clusters spins freely in all selected gears while clutch is out - it all points towards the clutch not engaging/disengaging. Bit hard to diagnose from the other side of the planet. Cheers Hayley
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Re: Iron clutch/trans

Postby Mutt » Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:07 pm

I'll have a look at the thickness and diameter tomorrow morning, since I'm gonna pull teh clutch pack and see if it's the trans
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Re: Iron clutch/trans

Postby Mutt » Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:01 pm

Ok. Dismantled things again.

Disassembled actuator. all 3 balls are 5/16", washer is .125 thick. All parts are in unrusted, unpitted shape. Don't see anything on the actuator that looks outta place,broke,repaired ,etc.

Removed clutch pack, jacked up rear end of bike. Clicked into first gear and spun clutch hub, rear wheels turns. Clicked into neutral, clutch hub spins free (rear wheel doesn't turn). Clicked into 2nd, spun hub, wheel turns. Clicked into 3rd, spun hub, wheel turns, clicked into 4th, spun hub, wheel turns. Then went back down thru the gears and they all did likewise.
So that tells me that the problem isn't in the trans anywhere. I've inspected all of the new clutch plates and half plate, springs, pressure plate etc. I see nothing weird there.. Cable is good.

What should I try next?

This is the most baffling thing to me. All other Harleys I work on are just a simple quick turn of a screw and lock the nut down and it works.
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Re: Iron clutch/trans

Postby sportsterpaul » Tue Jul 12, 2016 2:40 pm

A buddy had a new whizy pretty after-market extra-strong spring-- it replaces the two big nested springs. Problem is, that single spring has the coil ground flat on both ends, and depending where they grind it, it makes the pressure greater on one side of the coil. So when you apply the clutch, the plate with the 6 1/4-20 nuts tilts and the clutch never releases.

There is a reason the factory puts two springs in the clutch. You spin them until the coils look to be set up so the pressure will be even. Checking this with the primary open is pretty voodoo. You can put a big ball bearing where the clutch tool presses, but you would have to grind a divot in the end the tool so the ball does not pop out. Maybe just some kind of narrow short rod so the took is pressing the rod and that rod drops into the pocket of the application bearing. Then when you apply the tool, look to see the slightest cant in the big plate as it is pushed in. If so, open it up, rotate the springs some, and try try try again. This is why I love the dry clutch. Six little springs that balance the force over the whole plate-- Dry clutches pull in smooth, and you don't need an expensive tool.

If you have not bought the tool and are using a Taiwan gear puller like I used to-- be very careful, wear safety glasses, but be aware, pulling between the clutch hub and the plate with a puller is not the same as using the expensive tool, which is applying force just like the primary cover mechanism does.
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Re: Iron clutch/trans

Postby Mutt » Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:08 pm

This one has the stock double springs, but I'm sure the springs are the problem. It seems to me that the clutch just isn't separating enough
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Re: Iron clutch/trans

Postby sportsterpaul » Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:41 pm

This is why people buy junk primary covers they can cut open to watch the operation. You say that all the other bikes just need a turn of the screw. This may be your problem. Read the factory manual carefully. You have to adjust the cable length first, then do the center screw. This means screwing in that center screw really hard, so you know that the clutch is really applied. Then you loosen the big long threaded part of the cable where it goes in the primary. Adjust that so the lever is just a tiny bit loose. What this does is align the mechanism so it points straight down inside the case. Then loosen the center screw until you get the feel you want. You can set up a wet clutch a little tight, but not very much.

The difference is that when you pull the cable, the mechanism will go from the 6 o'clock to maybe 8 o'clock. If the mechanism is already at 7 o'clock, the same cable pull will not rotate the mechanism as much. If you have the mechanism at 8 o'clock, then the cable pull usually yanks the cable out of the mechanism.

I think you meant to say you know the springs are not the problem. If so, how? How do you know that the plate is staying even as the springs depress? Having that plate tilt is exactly the same as not having enough clutch travel. The center of the plate moves by the ball mechanism as much as it should, but one of the edges of the plate might be moving half as much, or not at all, while the opposite side of the plate moves twice as far away. The clutch will still drag.
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