KH issues with the starter crank..

Production K Models

Re: KH issues with the starter crank..

Postby IIKickstarterII » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:25 pm

Answer to Ambike that you are so correct about the early ratchet, my bad to refer about the kickback :roll: You are also maybe into something with the stop pin? I tried the kick today to force it further than the normal. As I mentioned earlier that the movement stopped in both ends was a truth with modifications. What I believed to be the end of the kick downwards was only compression in the engine. Result was that I could push it almost to the footpeg before it mechanically stopped.
Also the grip in the movement ended at 6 o'clock before it released.
To mrmon9r I will try to ckeck out your tip! :) Have to find pics to compare..
The good news is that I made the bike to fire up today and the engine sounds very good. No bad noises. Only issue was that it got way to much gas and it didn't help to adjust the low speed needle, but one thing at the time... It's time to open and control the parts in the starter system :)
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Re: KH issues with the starter crank..

Postby hennesse » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:57 pm

Here's a couple of pages from the 1976 Parts Book. The crankshaft, gear and cam remain the same -57 parts. Maybe there's different ones after 1976, but that's the latest book I have. Anyone help out here?

The ratchet gear and ratchet have changed. Better teeth, I guess. But I don't think these would cause your problem.

Dave
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1976 Parts Book
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kicker-76-book-2.jpg
1976 Parts Book
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Re: KH issues with the starter crank..

Postby EKHKHK56 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:35 pm

There are three sets of kicker gears and related at least for Ks and early XLS. :cry: You have to use all the same group at one time for best results. Later is stronger. Remove any excess play anywhere you can. Also after your primer "kick" wind the motor up to just BTDC and gently engage the teeth 100% than put your body into it. Especially with the Stroker KH, KHKs for ease of starting and to save your knee from hyperextending when the teeth aren't engaged fully. Just kicking away on a KHK will also be unpleasant should it back fire and launch you. :!:
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Re: KH issues with the starter crank..

Postby IIKickstarterII » Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:51 am

Hi everyone!
This thread is not dead! Found the problems and also found a ok way to solve it. Will need to get parts back from the repairshop after modification, so I can take good pictures and explain what I did and why? Will be continued!:)
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Re: KH issues with the starter crank..

Postby thefrenchowl » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:09 pm

The suspense is killing me....
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Re: KH issues with the starter crank..

Postby EKHKHK56 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:05 pm

Your'e not the only one! No mystery. Just set up the correct set with minimal play and stroke away! Use the coarse cut set if applicable as they put more bite in the engaging teeth minimizing mis strokes and hyyperextended knees. ;)
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Re: KH issues with the starter crank..

Postby IIKickstarterII » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:06 am

Finally the kickstart is working!!! :D
The problem was in a aftermarked kickarm and a twisted kick starter shaft. The square in the kickarm
was way off from where it should be and a new nos kickarm solved that.
The kick starter shaft was a total another matter, due to -52up and -57up parts don't mix.
The connection part between the kick starter shaft and the starter crank gear(33348-52) is different.
On the -57up kick starter shaft it's bigger, because of the reinforcement that the
starter crank gear got in -57up.
rsz_1imag0601.jpg
rsz_1imag0601.jpg (71.63 KiB) Viewed 13783 times

If I went for all -57up parts in the starter crank system I had to machine the bearing for the
kick starter shaft in the left crankcase, to make room for the reinforcement in the starter crank gear.
rsz_imag0568.jpg
rsz_imag0568.jpg (94.45 KiB) Viewed 13783 times


Also the diameter on the -52up and the -57up starter crank gears were different, so you have to probably change all the gears from there to the
clutch basket...

So I guess with a engine overhaul change the whole kick starter system to
-57up (or newer if it fits). My sollution was the lazy and cheap one. Kept it as is and only converted a -57up kick starter shaft to
a -52up shaft. :P
rsz_imag0598.jpg
rsz_imag0598.jpg (73.93 KiB) Viewed 13783 times

The left on is -52up, the middle is the converted -57up and the right is the -57up.

Thx for all tips and help!!!! :D
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Re: KH issues with the starter crank..

Postby Ferrous_Head » Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:28 pm

Now I'm not a K guy, I'm a Sportster guy so I really shouldn't be trying to help.
But I wouldn't think you would ever twist these shafts. when I first put my 66 together I had much the same problem. It turns out that in 77 HD changed the simple one piece kicker arm into a fold out two piece affair. The shaft that goes with that arm is "twisted" in that the square ends of the shafts are now different in relation to each other.
I couldn't for the life of me work it out to start with. The shaft was a NOS one I had bought. The rest of the parts were NOS. Couldn't work out what was going on until I bought another shaft and discovered this difference.
Now that might not be your problem. But I will tell you it is very hard to spot the difference between the two shafts just by casual observation. Especially if you don't know they made this variation.
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Re: KH issues with the starter crank..

Postby IIKickstarterII » Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:51 am

Hi Ferrous Head! :)
I'm also new to the K-mod, I've been doing 45's. So the differences between the shafts from the different production years is beyond me:) I bought one aftermarked(noname) and a nos shaft from Ebay. They were tagged -57up. So which year they were is a open question? I took a ruler and lined up the squares on one side and could see a visiual difference between the -52up and the -57up's. The squares on both sides of the shafts were not alligned(some degree off), but the -52up was more. The -57up's are also "beefier" in the shaft than the -52up. When using the nos shaft it helped by approx. 1/2 hour on the kickstart movement. Maybe another shaft could have given a better result, but now I can kick through to the release point and further. So no "mulekicking" from the bike anymore :shock: :lol:
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Re: KH issues with the starter crank..

Postby Ferrous_Head » Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:36 pm

It's sometimes a boon that HD used the same parts for different bikes over many years. But they also made some subtle changes that aren't easy to spot when you pick a part up in your hands. I've just been going through a similar issue with a set of front forks. Trying to find out what 1 inch shorter springs are when HD themselves don't appear to have given the measurement for the longer springs. Same with the tubes themselves. And with after market companies making most of the tubes that are out there it's anybody's guess what the EXACT correct length is.
As long as you have a workable solution that's a good thing.
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