56 KHK valves and springs

Production K Models

Re: 56 KHK valves and springs

Postby Noot » Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:13 pm

I measured my KH/KHK original valve springs. 2.233 Free Length
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Re: 56 KHK valves and springs

Postby Noot » Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:38 pm

The way I set up K/KH springs is: 1. Coil bind your spring in the vise(don't smash it, but lightly coil bind) and measure the length with digital caliper(write it down A). You may add +.050 to this figure to be safe. 2. Slip a valve in the guide, add the top collar and keepers(no spring) and pull it up tight and level. Now measure with your digital caliper the distance from where the spring will sit on the guide and where it sits on the step under the top collar(write it down B.). 3. Now subtract your cam lift from your #B figure.(write it down C). 4. Now subtract A from C - What's left will be the actual length you want to make your lower spacer. 4. Next, I buy the V-Twin 11-0812 lower spacers. They have a nice lip for the lower part of the spring to fit in and it centers it on the guide. You can turn these spacers in a lathe for more travel, or add shims/spacers underneath to take up the extra space. Basically, you want your spring to be about .050 from coil binding when your cam is at full lift. Even .075-.100 is probably ok if you want to be real safe.
I think Leineweber or Sifton uses .020? Then you get the most seat pressure(Installed spring pressure) and the strongest spring tension to pull that valve shut at high RPMs - and it keeps your roller on the cam lobe. Any springs I've used over 100lbs, 110lbs, 120lbs of pressure (tested in my spring tester) I have never floated any valves. You don't need 150lb valve springs with KHK cams. That's just robbing power. You can feel the drag from heavy valve springs when you manually turn over an engine on the bench. You don't need any stronger springs than necessary to do the job. If you ever have some springs that are a bit shorter, or weaker, and that's all you got - put them on the Intake Valves, 'cause if they float a bit, you'll never notice. Put your best springs on the exhaust valves when in doubt. This is good advice - Print and Save. :)

Note: After I make my spacer, I slip the valve back in the guide, drop my spacer(and shims if necessary) down in there - add the top collar and keepers - and measure it again. This is your Installed Spring Height. You could slip a spring in the vice and compress it to this dimension. Then compress it more for your cam lift. You'd have a good idea if it's going to coil bind. I do each valve individually, and make my spacers accordingly. You may want to figure them all kinda roughly, that way if you take it apart, any spacer would work with any valve/spring. Or mark them with an engraver as to which spacer was made for each valve/spring.
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Re: 56 KHK valves and springs

Postby 55panman » Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:35 pm

Thank you Noot---- as he said a very concise and easy to understand guide to checking valve springs and setting up coil bind clearance. Follow it and you can't miss. and as he said copy it. I did to give to anyone I know who asks for help. They'll have a guide.
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Re: 56 KHK valves and springs

Postby starcain » Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:14 pm

wb56 wrote:Stan, I am most likely much less then a "hobbyist and lack specific knowledge in some areas of the big picture" then you are. Also, being the middle man, probably complicates things more. Could I send you PM with Bill's phone number so you guys can talk and maybe find out what the problem is? Thanks Bill (my name Bill too)


wb56, I have Bill's phone number but I doubt whether I could add much more then what was discussed in the thread I referenced earlier. My first thought would be that maybe he is using a longer K Model spring with KH or KHK valve spring collars. Pretty sure that would bind them up. If you look at the one picture in the referenced thread, I used a longer K Model spring, no upper valve spring collar,( 52's and 53s didn't use them), and KK/KHK cams. As you can see in the picture it is very close to coil bind. If I would have used a upper valve spring collar it would surely have bound up. Also, I am assuming that valve lash is set correctly?
If Bill wants to talk,
Stan Diener
419-564-2010
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Re: 56 KHK valves and springs

Postby wb56 » Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:07 pm

Thanks to all that have commented and given me some good technical support. My thought is that the springs are K and not KH/KHK. I found a set on ebay that match the part number in the 1952 to 1956 parts manual I have, (PN 18200-32). I hope these work.
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Re: 56 KHK valves and springs

Postby panic » Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:12 pm

I can't find any of my notes from 40 years ago, so bear with me.
The KH valve should be .375" longer than the K due to the cylinder height. Are you sure you're using the right valves?
[url="http://victorylibrary.com/BTHP.htm"]H-D Flathead Breather Timing for High Performance[/url]
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Re: 56 KHK valves and springs

Postby wb56 » Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:55 am

Thanks panic, I think if the springs I ordered don't correct the problem, through the process of elimination, it's probaly the valves (as you mention) or the valve spring collars (as Stan mentioned). I can only hope. Thanks again!
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Re: 56 KHK valves and springs

Postby wb56 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:07 pm

panic, you say the KH valves are .375 longer then K valves. How long total are the KH valves? Anyone out there know. Want to check the ones I have. The springs I bought from eastern are the same length as the one's I already have and cause same problem. Yikes
Also I measured the length of the springs and they're 2.250 which is 0.017 longer then Noot mentioned.
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Re: 56 KHK valves and springs

Postby starcain » Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:18 pm

I would point you back to the thread that I referenced earlier. It has factory free length specs as well as well as specs from K and KH used valve springs.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1004

There is no difference in overall length between K and KH valves. For one thing they use the same exhaust valve. Intakes are different but only in head diameter not length. The valve should be somewhere around 5.540" to 5.560".
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Re: 56 KHK valves and springs

Postby wb56 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:40 pm

starcain, looked at the thred and comparied the pics of the two springs that thefrenchowl posted and my spring looks like the extra coil aftermarket. He says in the post

"It has one more spire than the OEM KH spring. Might work on a KH, but will go coil bind before KK/KHK cam fully opens the valve...
Do not use...
Patrick
SO, seems I have the wrong springs. Does anyone have an OEM set of KHK valves springs they will part with so BIll can finish my cylinders?
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