New to site with questions on My K

[thefrenchowl]

Hi all,

Both cam sets of my 54 KHK and 55 KHK are stamped with numbers, 1 to 4

Never seen a set stamped KK or KHK, and I have seen a few on ebay and elsewhere

Friend of mine has a 56 KHK, I could ask him to pull down his timing cover, but I doubt he will even if it's to settle an historic point!!!

And no, I have never seen a 52 KK, but the way they were made tells me it's in the realms of possibility that one or more 52 K had a retrofit...

One thing for sure, they would not be KK prototypes since we know of one that survived, 53KKX8 or sommat like that, which is the winningest KR ever made out of bits by Ralph Bernt, Carroll Resweber's factory employed tuner (and shit stirrer as well!!!) Once Carroll had his fateful accident, Bernt passed it on to George Roeder.



I'm on holiday at the mo, so can't check my parts books... But as a single thought, the confusion between early KK/KHK and 56 KHK could simply be the way they were made: Early ones, whatever you think, were few on the ground, so no special jigs were made to do the cams. Indeed these early KK/KHK sets were just KR grinds mounted on thicker shafts.

When the decision was made to make it a full model sometime in early 1955, not just a rare speed kit as before, they needed loads more cam sets and the KR route was neither too clever nor too fast. Hence new jig, and possibly, I don't know, back to std gear width???

Don't know for you guys, but to me, KK, 54 and 55 KHK are rareties while 56 KHK is more mainstream, that's how I look at them...

Patrick

[55panman]

Not a K anecdote, but I have a 1970 Triumph Trackmaster 750 I race that has some past pro history. It is a Routt cylinder kitted Triumph motor with Axtell modified flywheels. It has the extra T stamped in the motor serial number after the T120R to designate it as having the Routt kit and was AMA homologated. The T may or may not be the same T as the others. But I believe the T was stamped after the kits were installed on the East coast. But there's no way to tell if this T was added by someone who build the engine into a kitted engine at some later time or if it was one of the original 200 engines.

[hennesse]

It is a Routt cylinder kitted Triumph motor

Back in the 1970's, there were a bunch of motorcycle shops in the Hyattsville / Bladensburg Maryland area, and I would occasionally find myself at Routt's (I lived 1/2 hour away). Wow, great memories. We tracked down Sonny a few years ago - he's out in sunny (Sonny?) California now.

1970-ish Catalog

routts.jpg (61.1 KiB) Viewed 18755 times

Arno St. Denis, the aluminum welding specialist extraordinaire, still operates a few miles away from Routt's old shop. (See post under Reliable and Reasonable Resources).

[55panman]

Hennesse, cool----I still have that catalog myself around here somewhere. I have a couple other sets of his cylinders and pistons. Also a Chantland aluminum cylinder. I see him (Bob) now and then. Boris Murray ran Chantland's cylinders on his Triumph double.

[55khkjoe]

Hey Jerry R, still got those pics i sent you about 1 1/2 years ago. My 53KK cams and 55KHK cams with the lifts. I still have the lifts written down, but can't find the pics. the 53 were numbered 1-2-3-4 and the 55 were numbered 1KHK-2KHK-3KHK-4KHK. I hope to find the pics might have to get my computer guy to locate them. I had both motors on the benches at the same time, with timing covers off, cyl, heads off to compare each motor.

[EKHKHK56]

Joe, was there any difference in lift and was there any wear if different? I've had the same year same sets but had to sell during hard times. I never compared them unfortunately.They were cleaned, lubed and packed away for 20 years before the sales. Erik K

[55khkjoe]

Erik here is what I recorded. I just measured from bottom of lobe to top with a dial indicator. This is what I came up with. 1KK-1.3135, 1KHK 1.3085, 2KK 1.334, 2 KHK 1.325, 3KK 1.334, 3KHK 1.325, 4KK 1.310, 4KHK 1.306. The 53KK was .060 pistons over so there should be wear. The 55KHK I took to .020 pistons so nominal wear. Could the 52KK cam mystery be solved by pulling the plugs, lift valve cover get it to bottom of cam, take a measurement with a mechanics scale, top of tappet block to top of lifter, and take to top of cam and measure the same way and do the math to get the lift from what we know of stock K cams. I hope this helps and I wasn't yuk-ed (toked) up when I measured.

[EKHKHK56]

Joe those are mighty close. I think they are same basic grind. Wear and manufacturing tolerances probably account for the minimal differences. I have always believed the grinds were the same 53KK to 56KHK. Thanks for the info Joe!

[thefrenchowl]

Hi,

K/KH lift is .275 plus or minus a few thou, duration unknown

KK/KHK lift is .375 plus or minus a few thou, duration is 275 degrees plus or minus 2 degrees manufacturing tolerance.

Patrick

[starcain]

Patrick, If I'm reading your numbers right the KK/KHK cams would have a .100 higher lift then the K/KH cams. That's a tad over 3/32". That seems like a lot. The brief specifications on the KK Sales Folder indicates a 1/32" (.031) higher lift than the straight K. Are the numbers you are using documented numbers. I never much got into the whole measuring thing on the cams so this is all pretty interesting to me. You guys are bringing up a lot of good stuff. Stan