12V vs. 6V Generator

Production K Models

Re: 12V vs. 6V Generator

Postby Mayday53 » Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:19 pm

sean wrote:i just rebuilt my 52k genny.,bearings i used closed new timkin.brushes and feild coils were both found on fleabay.gaskets and seal i picked up at toms nos..if you collect the items any good vintage car genny rebuilder could help you get it together and test.


Sean do you have any part number information on the parts, specifically the timkin brushes and coils, you bought?
"Mayday"

"Respect is given, disrespect is earned"
User avatar
Mayday53
 
Posts: 288
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2015 5:50 pm
Location: North Dakota

Re: 12V vs. 6V Generator

Postby sean » Tue Feb 10, 2015 6:49 pm

for the feild coils i did a ebay search and 2 52k n.o.s feild coil sets came up from different sellers.i bought one from johnnys vintage motorcycles ,i did another search today and nothing came up on ebay.the bearing came from the millright at work,just so happens the id and od matched up to ones we use around the shop.the brushes and seal and gaskets came from "45 restoration "you can order online and it was at my canadian door in a week...
sean
 
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2014 7:32 am

Re: 12V vs. 6V Generator

Postby Mayday53 » Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:17 am

I took the casing off the gen tonight and found it cleaner than I thought. The carbon brushes appear to be good with life left on them. The armature brush contact field is pretty good, but I think just beyond it, it is a bit corroded-I will have a electrical shop take a look and test it now that it is cleaned up.
Attachments
Generator Brushes (1).JPG
Armature and Brushes
Generator Brushes (1).JPG (146.29 KiB) Viewed 15841 times
Generator Brushes (2).JPG
Armature and brushes
Generator Brushes (2).JPG (139.83 KiB) Viewed 15841 times
Generator Brushes (3).JPG
Generator Brushes (3).JPG (139.96 KiB) Viewed 15841 times
"Mayday"

"Respect is given, disrespect is earned"
User avatar
Mayday53
 
Posts: 288
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2015 5:50 pm
Location: North Dakota

Re: 12V vs. 6V Generator

Postby Mayday53 » Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:26 am

Here are the brushes...what do you think?
Attachments
Carbon Brushes side view.jpg
Carbon Brushes side view.jpg (29.62 KiB) Viewed 15841 times
"Mayday"

"Respect is given, disrespect is earned"
User avatar
Mayday53
 
Posts: 288
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2015 5:50 pm
Location: North Dakota

Re: 12V vs. 6V Generator

Postby Mayday53 » Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:27 am

Here are the brushes...what do you think?
Attachments
Carbon Brushes with PN.jpg
Carbon Brushes with PN.jpg (14.66 KiB) Viewed 15841 times
Carbon Brushes side view.jpg
Carbon Brushes side view.jpg (29.62 KiB) Viewed 15841 times
"Mayday"

"Respect is given, disrespect is earned"
User avatar
Mayday53
 
Posts: 288
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2015 5:50 pm
Location: North Dakota

Re: 12V vs. 6V Generator

Postby Mayday53 » Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:30 am

Not sure why it posted three times, but I cannot erase either...sorry for spam.
"Mayday"

"Respect is given, disrespect is earned"
User avatar
Mayday53
 
Posts: 288
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2015 5:50 pm
Location: North Dakota

Re: 12V vs. 6V Generator

Postby John R » Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:42 pm

A few thoughts on 6volts versus 12volts. There's no fundamental advantage in 12v apart maybe maybe parts availability of bulbs and this has to be balanced against finding and fitting new non-standard coil and regulator, maybe horn.

A 60 watt generator has the same power whether 6v or 12v, the former producing 10amps max current, the latter 5amps (by Ohm's Law, watts = volts x amps). Unless you fit a higher wattage 12v generator you have gained nothing power-wise.

Either generator unregulated will output at up to about 50v. A 6 volt generator is optimised for 6v but can sometimes be used with a 12v regulator to output at 12v. However this isn't good as you'll find the low speed output is way down.

Your 52k could be rebuilt optimised for 12v with special new field coils and re-wound armature. A good specialist can do this for you, but there aren't too many about. BUT, even if designed for higher output than 60w this then may overheat. The existing physical armature, body etc has a maximum heat dissipation rate. Outputting more power generates more heat and that could lead to failure.

There are 12v generators with higher output (VW?) that can be made to fit but for my money stick to 6v. Stock, easy. Although original sealed beam was just 30w you can use a 45w and still be within its capabilities, just, unless you haul round at under 35mph.

A 6v 45w headlamp is in principle no less bright than 12v 45w. However, there's the proviso that watts is the power used and is not a measurement of light output. In practice with conventional sealed beam lights they will be the same. Going back to when bikes vibrated and shook more than now, bulbs had lower light output for the wattage to enable tougher filaments. Bikes stayed with 6v longer because 6v filaments are tougher than 12v of the same wattage.

A couple of practical points - you can get double sealed replacement bearings that will serve better, and motoring a generator will indicate that it's not totally shot but won't say whether it's 100%. You can try running the bike at night and see whether it's delivering ok. The only proper test is to have the armature out and have it fully tested on a growler and to check the resistance of the field coils. An older style auto-electrics place can help.
User avatar
John R
 
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: 12V vs. 6V Generator

Postby Mayday53 » Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:19 pm

Thank you! I appreciate your time and explanation. I work with Electrical, Software, and Aeronautical Engineers and I always appreciate a complete answer...except for the times when I just need the time and not how the clock works, so to speak. I am definitely going 6V as I move forward.
"Mayday"

"Respect is given, disrespect is earned"
User avatar
Mayday53
 
Posts: 288
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2015 5:50 pm
Location: North Dakota

Re: 12V vs. 6V Generator

Postby John R » Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:09 am

Ha! You’re right! Sorry to drown with information but it’s for a wider audience too. I’ve learned a lot over the years, much of it the hard way (and forgotten a load too) and have appreciated help on the way and try to pass it on. Electrics scare a lot of people but it’s not so bad once you know some basic information.

One thing I could have added is don't overload the system with very high power lights, or whatever, and then blame the system.
User avatar
John R
 
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: 12V vs. 6V Generator

Postby DaveC » Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:42 pm

So whats wrong with Aeronautical engineers?
DaveC
 
Posts: 107
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:08 pm
Location: California

PreviousNext

Return to K, KK, KH, KHK

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests