Is a 53KRM Motor Suppose to Look Like This?

Racing K Models

Re: Is a 53KRM Motor Suppose to Look Like This?

Postby thefrenchowl » Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:16 am

Serial is OK on ""unmolested as cast"" pad and matches the cases as explained before, abbreviated belly numbers are consistant with Harley R shop practice...

Why is your friend so unsure???

Patrick
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Re: Is a 53KRM Motor Suppose to Look Like This?

Postby JerrryR » Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:39 am

Hi Patrick,
He is getting different opinions from two people who both race KRs.
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Re: Is a 53KRM Motor Suppose to Look Like This?

Postby thefrenchowl » Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:19 am

Oh Dear, Jerry!!!!

Just tell him to trust the cases, they can't lie or give uncertain info...

They are either right or wrong and from what I see on these shabby photos, all the details tell me they're right...

"R" casting code on both halves should be enough for anybody to ascertain these are indeed 1955 to 1956 KR cases, never mind any other clues thrown in there...

Note to oneself: Guys equipped for racing KRs are not necessarily guys equipped for knowing KRs...

Patrick
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Re: Is a 53KRM Motor Suppose to Look Like This?

Postby EKHKHK56 » Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:44 pm

PATRICK JERRY hey guys I Love You. OK Information is still pouring in....looks like TYPICAL K MESS Factory VS Independent VS GPublic. Secret is you all are right so far. 13th is still coming. So I see misss mnatch of early and late, 52, numbers. HASHED TOGETHER with NO sense or Pattern......whole fn bunch info coming, same channel, same station! Flatheads Rule, goodbye I ronDips. Erik K
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Re: Is a 53KRM Motor Suppose to Look Like This?

Postby thefrenchowl » Fri Mar 13, 2020 6:10 am

Hi Erik,

It is also well known that KR, due to racers having to prove ownership of the bike to the AMA, were subject over time to better or worse restamps when they changed hands. I've even seen photos of XLRs stamped as KRs to get around that rule...

So, restamping a KR case into another KR case is not fraudulent in me eyes, just a fact of period life, unlike stamping a K case to make it into a dubious KR if raced at the time or worse, if done today to fool the general public!

It's still in the end a set of KR matched cases whatever the stamps on it... And I still can't quite see how "they" would have re-stamped that set of cases since the pad is untouched as cast, not ground down.

If they were later than 1957 replacement cases, they would have the 4 bolt Sportster trap door, so these are earlier than 1957 and later than 1954... That window is narrow!!!

Patrick
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Re: Is a 53KRM Motor Suppose to Look Like This?

Postby hugoct » Fri Mar 13, 2020 7:32 am

WRs, KRs, and XLRTTs were built in the race department.
The cases were stamped with the serial number in the race department by any number of people most likely the person building the engine.
Proof of ownership (a receipt sufficed) was not in effect for very long as there was an easy work around.
The reason for the ownership check was to support the claiming rule.
George Roeder was racing one of Ralph Berndt's KRs post Resweber when it was claimed by Tom Worden.
The bike was surrendered to Tom Worden at the race.
Berndt got a real good attorney.
Berndt sued Worden.
The bike was returned plus damages (the bike had been dismantled).
The claiming rule survived the proof of ownership issue.
To enter a National Championship race a rider had to enter the up to two bikes he would ride.
The bikes serial numbers were checked against the entry during pre race tech inspection.
The bike you selected to time trial was the bike you had to race.
There was a post race inspection usually of the top three finishers.
People were disqualified for racing a bike other than the one they were entered on. (Dick Hammer Daytona 200 1968)
We received replacement cases for our KRs at the Harley dealership and the number pad was blank.
Dealers had stamp sets.
We stamped the number from the cases we were replacing.
We did not check if the fonts were current or if the set was a mix of old and new.
The top flight racers such as the guys who raced for Andres's San Diego shop had multiple engine with the same number.
I would be more concerned as to wether these cases have a clean chain of custody than wether the fonts are correct.
If a dealer has a good relationship with Service at Milwaukee many times they will look up the original MSO and line bore numbers associated with the serial number.
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Re: Is a 53KRM Motor Suppose to Look Like This?

Postby EKHKHK56 » Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:48 pm

That sounds right to me folks. From what I can find KR numbers are in many versions and combinations. New/old/big/medium stamps. Some in new old combinations. I think if pad is original, and Vin # is logical it is acceptable. Since there were replacement cases available for years many where stamped with whichever set was available at stamping time. Some case vin #s were duplicated by racers on back up engines. Definitely. I have only found a few numbers to view. The medium old font KR # shows up with medium old or new number font on a few original looking KRs. This is a smaller font than early large font that takes up whole pad height. Since there was little control of stamping I think all types are acceptable with original pad and line #s Erik
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Re: Is a 53KRM Motor Suppose to Look Like This?

Postby EKHKHK56 » Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:01 am

So yes, fellows, even restamps are legit but not best modern situation I imagine..."back then" Used case halves were bought simply as a part, to rebuild a motor with broken case, etc. If it was vin side it could have had the old non pertinent # removed and correct number put on to complete the build. Today DMV would say no no no because of laws today, that probably weren't so specific back then. People weren't necessarily trying to hide a stolen motor, but were recycling parts. Like the case I have listed now. 54KHK stamped 55case to repair blown 54 motor. Long before I came along...Erik
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