Transmission

[John R]

Going back to the original post and Erik's reply, when I bought my KK and checked through, it had a later cluster, but the later 9/16" shaft was running in the early 5/8" Torrington. Not great! So get the correct Torrington and sleeve the housing as Erik says.

But there was another issue too. This cluster had a longer mainshaft so that the sprocket fitted-up about 1/8" further out. Sprocket alignment with rear sprocket wasn't the issue. When disengaging the clutch, the quick-helix clutch-release brings it in toward the gearbox sprocket. I only realised what was happening when the drive chain rivets sawed through the clutch cable! Close is ok, too close isn't. To fix this I counter-bored the sprocket to take it in some, then all was ok.

Don't know which shafts are longer, but compare old shaft with new, ideally when built-up.

John

[thefrenchowl]

John: when I bought my KK and checked through, it had a later cluster, but the later 9/16" shaft was running in the early 5/8" Torrington. Not great!

:O(

Thanks for not mentioning my name there!!!

Deffo not one of my better days!!!

Patrick

[sportsterpaul]

" I purchase Andrews transmission parts for anything other than stock. "

And even Andrews can screw up. A shop in California had a new Andrews gear break a tooth and the owner called Andrews who admitted a batch of gears got out that was over-hardened. I suspect they either forgot about the batch in the oven, or they had some employee who thought it would be better if he left the gears in the oven a super-extra-long time. Being Andrews, they made everything right-- a really stand-up company and worth our respect. The same shop had a great little side-contract with CCI to take apart under-hardened rod sets, send the rods out to Pacific Heat Treat, and then put them back together. It was over 100 sets. Tricky stuff, that heat treating, and not something that is self-evident when Taiwanese people make a copy of a part.

The sloppiness that Harley manufactured to is evident in all the different thrust washers you can use. Mainshaft washers come from 0.030 to 0.085. Note that they released more thicknesses in 1973, which sounds right with regards to what Tim The Grim said about 1973 gears.

Countershaft right washers go from 0.020 to 0.085, once again, a bunch of thinner ones in 1972 and 1973.

You can also space out the dogs with the low gear left washer, that varies from 0.065 to 0.100, and note there they went from one washer in 1953 and added three thicker washers in 1955, which ties in with Erik's comments about the factory doing redesigns in 1955. Thing is, I usually have to stack two of these washers to move the shifter dogs far enough away.

Scary that there is no way to adjust the dog spacing on the mainshaft, unless you take out a grinder. And as John R pointed out, its not just getting the dogs room, its making sure the sprocket is in design location.

So once you get the shafts to fit and have room for the dogs, then you get to chose between stock, over, and under shifter forks, Which by 1984, you could get stock, +/-0.005, +/-0.010, +/-0.020. Seven choices in two places, for a total of 49 combinations of how your tranny forks are spaced. And they then you can add a 35891-66 shim under the whole shifter assembly and have 98 combinations of where the heck your shifter forks are located in space. Factor in the shaft washer combinations and there are 1000s of variations in your transmission.

Don't think this is the fault of American Machine and Foundry (AMF). All they did was pour money into a company that had completely lost its way. When faced with nothing fitting, Harley's answer was "release more washers" instead of "control the manufacturing process". This is why Soichiro Honda was a great man. When I was at General Motor's school in 1971, they told us that over-tolerenceing was a prime way that added needless cost. They taught us to try and make everything sloppy, and love love love that sheetmetal that you can pound out fast and cheap. Honda (who was a garage mechanic with no degree) taught his engineers to make any tolerance tighter if they could. After he started micro-finishing cylinder bores the world realized engines can go a lot longer.

And you won't see dozens of washers in a Honda transmission. I was a young teen when I took apart a Honda 305cc engine, and even back then I realized, "this guy is a genius". Soichiro spoke to me, through the parts, as if he was standing in the room. We get the same conversations when working on K-models. Those guys knew what they were doing. By 1972, they all must have retired or been beaten down by the finance types. I don't mind that they didn't get the 1952 K-model dead right and had to make changes. Those changes were always for the better. But by the 1977 case redesign, you can see that cost was king, and nobody on the Sportster design team knew how an engine works.

[thefrenchowl]

Read here for a real insight by a guy that worked there...!!!

http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/jesse%204.htm

http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/jesse%205.htm

http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/jesse%206.htm

Patrick