Tillitson vs Linkert on XLCH

[ThumpStreet]

Just caught up on the recent posts on the Tillotson thread and want to thank all for their responses.A note to Patrick aka the French Howl of his post on the EBay factory diaphragm on the UK website.Happens it was located right up the street from Kansas in Ohio.Best I can tell from a computer view, was it just removed from the package to photograph.I'm bettin Patrick is right stating it will be a good one.Talked to a guy at Truett and Osbourne about the accelerator pump and he thought with some mods a Bendix pump would work in the Tillotson.Not seeing it yet, I'm not banking on that to work out.I have thought about enriching and revitalizing the original leather cup with lubricant designed for steam engine cylinders.It's base is animal lard.I'll be doing a bit more investigating as I haven't been around any of that specific lube since moving away from a neighbor who was deep into the steam engine business.Anybody have anymore input if Harley id'd the month of manufacture of their units?From what I've gathered from this site and others,it seems that year and unit number is all they provide.If mine was the 771 unit of 1969 does anyone have an insight as to what month it was built?

[thefrenchowl]

Yes, Neatsfoot oil will regenerate any hard up lather...

Patrick

[sportsterpaul]

Intermediate jet on the Keihin works same as the earlier carbs, it is a mix of 2 things: idle screw set ever so slightly rich and butterfly ever so slightly open, not resting on its stop. Try tuning your carb again, ie drop the idle a touch on the idle screw and open your butterfly a touch. You'll soon find the sweet spot where the bike starts dead easy and you loose the hiccups/coughs at the transition. Even by 1979, the Keihin had several versions. Best one is the oldest one, late 1976, all accessible screws on the outside. It has 1mm idle jet and 1.80mm main jet. Make also sure you have the rubber blanking plug underneath the idle jet. It is not fed from the bottom direct in the bowl, but via the main jet next to it.
Patrick

Yes, I agree the oldest (earliest production) Keihin butterfly carbs are best. I have a box full of them. I also have them mounted on my 1962, my 1977, my 1979, my 1980. The XR-1000 I left with the Del-Ortos, Fine by me, the flat-slide Mikunis are death machines, I had my fling with those. Never again.

I am angry right now so apologies, but I am just getting completely infuriated with the butterfly Keihin. I can't get the needles to seat. I have about 20 needles. Old ones new one, ones from factory rebuild kits and aftermarket rebuild kits. My biggest problem is the float is not available, at least not near as I can figure. The tang that presses on the needle gets a dent, and I don't know if that is better, to be worn in, or worse, since it can hang up.

Today was just a joy. My 1977 had sat for a while, so I try to take it out to run some errands. First, it wouldn't start. Turns out the accelerator pump housing check valve was stuck. I learned long ago a butterfly Keihin needs to have two rattles. You take the accelerator housing off, and that little thing should rattle. Then you pick up the float bowl and that should have a rattle too. These are the two check-valves needed for the accelerator pump. No rattles, no workie.

I take the bowl off, and yeah, the check valve on the accelerator housing is stuck. No amount of carb cleaner from either side can free it up. So I have three accelerator housings in my stash and they all rattle. I pick a nice one, replace the rubber diaphragm just for good measure, and bolt the bowl up to the carb, that was still on the bike. OK, happy days, I turn on the gas, and a couple twists and a nice really full squirt goes into the manifold. I walk inside the garage to get my gloves and sun-glasses, and note a nice big puddle of gas under the bike. Yeah, it is just streaming out the float bowl overflow. Great, more %*&#^*%$ needle problems.

I left the bike outside for an hour, to dry off, pulled the fuel line from the carb in preparation, and pushed the bike in just as twilight arrived. Tomorrow I will put a completely different carb from my spares on the bike. If I have any other trouble whatsoever, I will put the only really decent carb that Harley ever had in 100 years of production, the CV Keihin used right up until they went to fuel injection. Then I will get easy starting, nice idle, nice off-idle, and fantastic fuel economy.

I really thank you for your jetting suggestions. I will try them, maybe I am so far off that is why I get the off-idle lean-out. I do adjust the mixture for max RPM, and then go a bit richer. It will be fascinating to try your setup. Let me go look at what jets-- I assume that I have this one the same as my 1979, which is 155 main and 80 intermediate. So you are saying 180main and 100 intermediate. I don't think I have any that fat. The idiots that moved me to Florida were nice enough to put the toolbox on its end, so the jet drills are mostly lost.

I am hip to the rubber plug over the intermediate jet, I have never left it out so far, lets hope my luck holds out. I feel that these carbs are all just worn out. They start to leak air at the throttle shaft and a million other problems. I have sealed the Welsh plug over the off-idle jets with silicone, and on one yanked the plug out to really get that area clean before putting in a machined aluminum plug also with silicone. I bought an ultrasonic cleaner just so I can get all the way into every passage and orifice. I still can't get them to not back-burp off idle, and they all get stuck or leaky needles and some kind of accelerator pump headaches like today.

I am sure a big part of this is the alcohol in the gas, and I am sure the MTBE in California had its own damage to the fuel system. With the late-model CV carb, at least they were designing for alcohol in the gas. If I could buy a brand-new CV carb for 500 dollars I might even consider it.

OK, time to cool down and watch a movie. Working mad is almost as stupid as working drunk or wired. Tomorrow I will sift through all my spare carbs and build the butterfly Keihin of absolute perfection. If that %^&* thing has a leaky or stuck needle, I will throw it into the concrete wall and mount the CV Keihin. I will keep you all posted.

[ThumpStreet]

The joys of maintaining old machinery....I feel you Brother.

[EKHKHK56]

If the float is in good condition except for a dent left from the needle you can machine the dent out. Just file the spot than sand until smooth. The dimple worn in to it will cause the needle to tip and miss seat if you don't. Erik K

[sportsterpaul]

We have a winner! Joe wrote me and I will send him the o-rings. I will re-iterate an offer on an older topic, I have a bag of James Gaskets #11107 Tillitson O-ring, 1966-1971. Its an un-opened bag of 10. Just PM me your address and I will drop them in the mail. I sold off all my Tillitson carbs 10 years ago. First come-first gifted.

[jOe]

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[DaveC]

Tillotson Model HD rebuild kits.

Thanks to Jerry R, I have been working with the president of Tillotson on producing a Tillotson produced rebuild kit for the DC carbs. For any of you who have attempted to use the only current rebuild kit, which s priced at over $100, it just doesn't work. The pump piston is too large. The Tillotson factory kit includes a diaphragm, gasket , accelerator pump and other misc pieces. As most of us know, the diaphragm and pump boot become hardened with age and exposure to gasoline and become inoperable. The leather accelerator pump piston also hardens and the spring fails, usually due to rusting out. The new and improved model features a metal piston with an o-ring. I have tested the new and improved version and it works just fine.

Tillotson is ready to go into production, but what should the initial quantity be? I have made several attempts to get the J&P folks involved, but have yet to receive any response. Any of you who can contact the ABC gang, Wilderness Traders or any other rebuild forks pleas feel free to do so and as back to me any data on quantities to produce.

Thanks

Dave

[jOe]

Hi Dave ; did you mean DC or tillotson HD?

[ThumpStreet]

Dave,In my search for Tillotson rebuild parts I have contacted all the suppliers you mentioned and additionally several others.The only response I received from them was unavailable and put your e-mail on their waiting list.What are you asking us members to do in regard to high volume vendors?Contact the aftermarket vendors and ask them what they speculate repair kit sales could possibly be?My question is how much investment funds does Tillotson require to make it worth their while to produce a run of kits?Could it be possible to get some interested owners together pooling some funds to get a number of kits made by Tillotson selling any surplus on the internet to people whose needs arise.Just some thoughts.But count me in on any help I can be of making these necessary parts available.